>> You've tuned into HubTalk podcast about teaching, learning and technology. [ Music ] >> Welcome back to this episode of HubTalk, our podcast on teaching and learning. I'm Colin Stapp. >> And I'll Bill Hamlin. >> And today we have with us Jill Rupert and Matt Davies who joined us for an online student forum. And we're going to be interviewing them about their experience meeting with some students who take classes online here at Chemeketa. I'd like for both of you to introduce yourself. Matt, if you want to start, tell us how long you've been at Chemeketa and what you teach. >> I teach Religious Studies here at the college, and I've been at Chemeketa since January of 2013, and I've taught online probably since fall, '13, maybe beginning of 2014, but several years now. Five years or so. >> And Jill? >> I teach English. That means Writing and Literature classes, and I've been here since 2003. And I started teaching online in January of 2004. >> Great. Thank you both for joining us. So a little bit of information about the Student Forum that we did. This is the second focus group that we've done with online students. Last year we had eight students who joined us. And one of the things that they shared with us is that they would like to have more experiences with faculty who teach online outside the classroom. So this year we invited four faculty, Matt and Jill and two other faculty members to join us, and Matt and Jill are going to share some of their takeaway from this event. The Student Forum was a follow-up to our Student Survey that we sent out in the spring of 2018. So every two years we do a survey of our online students, and the last two years we've wanted to do a small focus group where we can sit down in person and talk with students as well. The other reason for including faculty is we really want to influence faculty practice here in online teaching and teaching practice and provide some professional development opportunities. And so we enjoyed having a group of about eight students this year and four of the online faculty members as well. >> Okay, Matt and Jill, so before we get into some of the really detailed things that students were talking about or asking about related to online classes, what were some of the big picture takeaways that you came away from the event with? >> I think one of the big ones, for me, was if we don't ask students about their experiences in online education, then we are missing a wealth of information. They care. And I think that's really -- >> Oh, yeah. >> -- important. They have great insights, things that we can't even think about as instructors on the facilitation side of the computer, if you will. And so it was nice listening to students talk about their experiences. And how an idea that I thought would be really good kind of falls flat -- >> Hmph. >> -- with the students. >> Hmph. >> Other things that make my job easier such as universal comments and they read it as disinterest and not being engaged as a faculty member. And so being able to listen and having the humility to take that advice was a huge takeaway. >> I think that I would like add on to that, that I was surprised and shocked that eight students would show up on a Friday to talk. And I even asked Colin if they were being paid, and they weren't [laughter]. They got lunch and breakfast, which was nice. Yeah, I agree. I was interested in the students talking about how they wanted more interaction and they wanted more of what we would call a quote/unquote "real" class experience, interacting with the teacher and each other, and how like Matt says, some of those efforts just -- they can smell a rat -- >> Yeah. >> -- that it's kind of not that useful in how we set it up online. >> And we had a pretty good cross-section of students. We had some nontraditional, what I would consider nontraditional students, and a few traditional students as well. >> And we had students who took classes exclusively online. And we had some students who did a mix of face-to-face and online. >> Yeah. >> And I think that mixture's helpful. >> And weren't there a couple that also were taking classes. They were comparing things to OSU and other schools. >> Yeah. >> So they had experiences -- >> Yeah, okay. >> -- at other schools as well. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. They were [inaudible]. And I think as is typical anytime we talked with the students, we could also see that, you know, every student's experience is different. >> Yeah. >> And a student's effort and engagement and facility with different kinds of tools is always going to color his or her experience, right? There were some comments I heard that I felt sympathy for, and I also thought maybe there were instructions that were there -- >> Yeah, yeah. >> -- or I hope so, right, for students. And yet it's good feedback if they're not hitting the mark. >> Yeah. >> So, Matt, you mentioned this idea that some of your strategies or things you're doing in your online class that you thought were effective methods and efficient in your own workflow might not be working for all of the students based on some of the feedback you got. Were there any other suggestions or things that the student brought up that surprised you from the forum. >> There were a lot of takeaways that surprised me, honestly. I think the big one, and maybe it stuck with me because it was one of the very first suggestions that a student gave, was about the accessibility of textbooks. So this student, in particular, buys e-books and he lamented the fact that after the term the book basically expires, that you pay -- what is it $90 for a textbook, an e-book, and then you get it for the three months of the term and then it leaves, because it's electronic. >> Sure. >> You know, the publisher can take it away again. And he lamented the fact that it wasn't like a physical textbook, that he wanted to have it as a reference point so that he could build on his material or reference back to it when he's progressing along a series of classes. >> Yeah. >> That surprised me. I think sometimes there's a stereotype of online students who are disengaged and who are taking the online class for an easy grade, or to kind of shirk some of the responsibilities of a face-to-face class. And everything we learned kind of flew in the face of that. >> Interesting. >> And so a comment about how badly he wanted textbook accessibility was a good example of that. >> Wow. So not the, you know, get in, take the class, get out and move on. It's more, you know, this is something that's worthwhile and I want to keep it around. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, that's interesting. >> Yeah. >> I would agree that that colored almost everything I heard, that students wanted more. And the thing that surprised me the most was students talking about online classes where they got basically no feedback -- >> Yeah. >> -- from instructors. I mean, I felt kind of sick to my stomach hearing that because it's difficult and it's very time-consuming to respond to students online because a lot of time it's, you know, 30 times instead of once in a classroom. But they talked about not hearing from their instructors very much or not getting feedback on assignments. >> Mm-hmm. >> And as a teacher, I also felt like I can't -- sometimes I design the assignments for students to explore, and it's really not necessary for me to comment on everything that a student did for whatever the objective of that assignment was to have been met. However, students do need feedback on their work, and I felt really happy to know that that's the case -- >> Yeah. >> -- and sad that that has been the experience for some students. >> Yeah. I think I came away somewhat validated in the amount that I comment. But as an adjunct I have a lighter teaching role than other people, and so I can devote some time to it that other people can't maybe. On the flip side, I have found myself relying somewhat on stock comments that -- or kind of naturally arise from a rubric. And some of the students said they can read right through that, and it seems so impersonalized. And it doesn't give value to the amount of work that they put in, let's say to the discussion host or something like that. And that's something that I had to take to heart a little bit. >> Yeah. I think in my teaching I -- more and more I try to disclose to my students why we're doing what we're doing -- >> Yeah. >> -- and why I am structuring this in a certain way. And that feedback made me think about disclosing to my students, look, I'm going to make sure you have -- and I actually do this in my writing classes. Here's general feedback that applies to this assignment to almost every student, right? In addition, here is some individual feedback for you. >> Yeah. >> That's a great idea. >> Right? So make sure they understand like I'm not just sending everybody the same e-mail, right? But here are -- but most of you are going to have the same challenges with this assignment, so here's a checklist, right? >> Sure. >> And, yeah, I do want to -- and then the individual comments can be briefer. >> Yeah. I found this in my own practice where, you know, as Religious Studies Instructors we interpret primary sources a lot. And so when students are moving through -- you know, I've been doing this since 2013, so over six years I kind of know the questions and the hang-ups and the confusions that come through text. Typing those out every time is as pain. And so I -- >> Yeah. >> -- resorted to filming myself, a quick, six, seven, eight minute video. I did learn that students will kind of stop paying attention after three-and-a-half or four minutes. But I put out six, seven, eight, maximum 12-minute videos that move through the text and interpret it for the common hang-ups so that when I'm responding to students in the discussion post I can say, hey, that's a great question or a great point. I will explain that in my weekly video which means -- you know, that's a sentence, right? And I'm still engaged. >> That's a great idea. >> And then for the students who raise things that I don't address in the video, I'll spend my time to respond to those. >> Yeah. >> That's very good. >> And it saves some time. >> Yeah. >> Because then it's not a stock answer every time. >> So, Jill, you bring up a really great a minute ago, that it's sometimes hard -- if you have a class of 30 and you're teaching four classes a term online, even two classes a term when 30 students, or up to 30 -- we could have 35 but -- in some classes. >> Yeah. >> That it's really hard to provide that feedback. However, when students don't hear at all, which we heard from students, that they did not hear at all from the faculty member, then that makes it really difficult. If you were sharing this info with colleagues, what would you share with them about the importance of feedback? >> I just think learning -- that's where the learning really takes place, right? >> Mm-hmm. >> The student has done some thing, read something, written something, posted something, and there's great value in them responding to each other, right? >> Mm-hmm. >> Yes. >> And they -- I think -- I always tell my students there's this study and I read it several years ago, that they retain more of what they talk to each other about than they do -- than what we lecture them about or in online what we put in their learning modules. So I think that's really valuable. But I would just want people to know that students want that feedback and that's -- I don't know. I'm living my professional life thinking that's the best practice -- >> Yeah. >> Hey -- >> -- to give them feedback -- >> Yeah. >> -- you know? >> When I first started teaching online, I was skeptical because teaching a Humanities class online seemed cheap to me. >> Yeah. >> Mm-hmm. >> It seemed like I was shortcutting my students. And so I consciously went into it trying to think how can I mimic the classroom experience? And it's hard to do. And I'm not perfect at it. There's so many things I want to change. But I would tell faculty members, if a student asks you a question in a face-to-face class, you answer it, right? >> Yeah. >> If a student misunderstands a concept in a face-to-face class, you spend a little bit of time talking about it. It's quicker to speak a sentence than to write a sentence. But your online students deserve the same courtesy of having their question answered and having their confusion cleared. It does no one a service if we let our students stay confused or, you know, tied to a impersonal screen. >> Mm-hmm. >> Yes. >> And I think we can -- I mean, I try really hard to respond to my students, especially when they send me a direct question, like in messages or email. I try to respond within a day or two. >> Yeah. >> Mm-hmm. >> And I frequently hear from them that they're appreciative of that, even if they're maybe getting more general feedback on a big assignment or something. They know that I'm going to respond to an individual query and I think that, you know, probably because all teachers have to diagnose and strategize for what they can do in a limited amount of time with a certain set of students. That might be a place that's a good, you know, a good suggestion to make sure the individual questions are being asked. >> Yeah. >> Or answered. >> Yeah. That's great, great insight. Is there anything from some of your takeaways that you might not have agreed with? Jill, a minute ago you alluded to that sometimes maybe students didn't find info that could have been in the class to help them. >> Right. >> So you -- we have to take into context the different student personalities. Was there anything that maybe kind of didn't sit well with you from what students said? >> I think students wanted all the classes to be the same in terms of design. And I think they had some really good ideas, for example, that every class should have the course menu at the left. And that should be pretty similar. >> In the same order. >> Yeah. So they can find things. And I thought, you know, that's something that is probably a good idea. I don't know how well faculty would respond to that because people have their own ideas about how to set up a class. And different disciplines have different needs. And I know that there are some people who use the calendar in Blackboard and some people who, you know, use those things, and others of us don't. And I think I can -- I guess I'm not really answering your question, Colin, but I think -- I've thought a lot about that student request that it would be easier for them to get into a class and know what they're going to see. And I wonder if there's a happy medium there because I don't know if there's a possibility of having a generic storefront for every online class. >> And the students disagreed with themselves about -- with each other I should say, about whether they wanted a universal template in all online classes or whether just having that left-hand menu be -- >> Yeah. >> -- in the same order. They didn't agree with each other, which means -- >> Right. >> -- that we can still ask the question and kind of ponder it a little bit. I'm with you about I don't -- I kind of like the individual flavor -- >> Right. >> -- that each instructor brings to the class. I would be pretty hesitant to turn my class over to a universal template. But ordering my left-hand menu is a pretty easy fix -- >> Yeah. >> -- I think. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I don't have a whole big say in that. >> Yeah. Or even, you know, a set of categories of things to have there, right? And that, that -- I like that idea more of best practices, right, versus you must do it this way [laughter], right? >> Okay, so no edicts on like -- that it has to be a certain way, but, yeah. >> Another suggestion that I always resist is opening up all 10 weeks of instruction right at the beginning. Students want that and I will always resist that because I believe in building upon ideas and not rushing through 10 weeks of material in two weeks because you are going on vacation at the end of the term or because you want to work ahead. I will always say one week at a time so that we can grow and learn and build together. >> Yes. >> Well, and that's something that students probably don't understand, aren't aware of, is that we can't open up a course because then it becomes too much like a correspondence course. >> Right. >> Correspondence courses don't qualify for financial aid, so there has to be some structure. So I agree with you, Matt, that you can't just open up a course to the whole term. You need to build on certain things. >> Yeah. >> You need to make sure students are clear on what they're learning and we also need to make sure that we're following Department of Ed regulations on what qualifies for financial aid, so -- >> Oh, I didn't know that. >> Can you imagine the feedback nightmare if you had 30 students at different points in a course? >> Yeah, yeah. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. >> It would be ridiculous, and in many classes that doesn't make any sense. For example, in an online writing class, they have to -- we're working on a writing assignment. We're going to have a draft workshop that's super time specific. >> Sure. >> You've got to have your draft in at this day so that your group can respond to it. You can't work four weeks ahead, you know. >> Right. >> And I think the students also contradicted themselves on that, which I'm not saying to say, oh, shame on them. I'm saying like they knew that they wanted more interactivity -- >> Yeah. >> -- and understanding which means they don't want that correspondence-type, let-me-rush-through-10-weeks-in-two-and-be-done-with-it type situation. >> Yeah. >> So do you think that what they were really trying to get to is that they just need and want more flexibility in a course that maybe some courses don't offer? And I'm not saying, you know, Matt, open up your whole 10 weeks. But that maybe some faculty are a little more rigid. I think that's the case. You know, as I started off by saying online students aren't trying to shirk responsibilities. At the same time we have a lot of online students who work 9:00 to 5:00 jobs and have kids and are extremely busy. And so having the flexibility of the schedule -- this is one thing I learned, right, when I began teaching online, was I had a traditional due-dates of maybe I think Saturday and Sunday night, and I had a lot of students respond to me and say, I work full-time jobs. I can only do my homework on weekends. Can we pushback due dates? And so now I have a Sunday night/Monday night due date -- >> Yeah. >> -- policy. So we have to be flexible -- >> Sure. >> -- in some fashion. I think opening up all 10 weeks is a little bit to flexible. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I agree with that. I've seen some instructors go the route of -- at least opening content in advance, so like the whole 10 weeks of maybe just the lecture topics or some things, so at the very beginning the students can see what the course is going to be all about. You know, a lot of people include that in the syllabus anyway, but for some students I think it gives them an idea of what's coming, am I going to be able to do this, just kind of put their mind at ease a little bit at the beginning of the term -- >> Right. >> -- rather than just seeing this empty course and not really knowing what's coming I guess. >> That reminds me of another suggestion that some students gave that I never thought about. But as I've kind of thought about the forum, it's made me realize how -- like we're in a different generation of students. We're getting our college students now -- if they're traditional college age, then they're post-911 babies. And that means something for the world of technology that they've grown up in. And so a couple of students said they wanted an app-style preview to the class. And by that they meant they wanted a screenshot of different parts of the course in order to, when they're registering for classes, in order to see how the class is structured, maybe what the Discussion Board looks like, what the lecture topics look like, kind of like when you go to an app on the App Store and you see five screen shots. So you kind of see how everything's situated. >> Sure. >> They asked for that which was a novel idea. I had never thought about that before. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, that wouldn't have occurred to me either. And I -- that sort of puts like cold fingers of dread around my heart because I'm often polishing up what I'm going to do -- >> Totally, totally. >> -- you know, right before the term starts. >> Oh, yeah. >> Sure. >> But it wouldn't be a problem making a generic -- >> Yeah. >> -- you know, like this is how this class is normally structured. >> But it also shows that students are thoughtful about the classes they register for. >> Exactly. >> And it's on us as instructors to give them a good course to respond do, to learn from. >> Yeah. I wanted to go back to this idea of how much of the class to let students see. I mean another issue is -- >> Sure. >> -- it's not just that students are working. Students are all over the world. And I ran into that with deadlines that had a student in Hong Kong -- >> Oh, wow. >> -- and she sent me a message like, you know, I'm translating the deadlines, but I just want to let you know where I am in the world, you know. And so I feel like there's sort of a happy medium between pedagogical responsibility with not just giving them everything so they can do it correspondence course style, but also giving them enough so that they can negotiate their schedule and their ability, right? >> Yeah. >> So for me, I try to stay -- have a week or so ahead, but -- because I know if I reveal it later than I intended to that's making a hardship on students, you know. >> Yeah. But -- >> And I've made that mistake in the past, and so it's an interesting problem. >> I agree with both of you. And, Matt, you alluded to it, needing to change your due dates. I needed to do the same thing in an online FYE course because students, again, were saying, I'm working full-time. Sunday's the only day that I can really get started on something for the next week. And I was making things available on Sunday afternoon so that it would give me time to work on it Sunday morning. And I thought, okay, I need to change my workflow so that I'm done with something and they could have access to it on Saturday for the next week -- >> Yeah. >> -- to really get their work done. So you make a great point about, Jill, about our students being all around the world. I've had students in different time zones as well, even in the United States, and just being flexible on how we're meeting our course. >> I guess maybe to go -- I don't know if it contradicts that idea, but to go back to the like new technology idea. The other one that stood out to me was that chat option, texting option -- >> Oh, yeah. >> -- type idea for students to get a hold of their professors easier, even if they aren't going to show up for a virtual office hours through some sort of video chat, having a Google chat, or some sort of texting option that allows for personal communication but it may be one step removed. Was another interesting idea that would maybe work across different time zones. But maybe that's what email does, too. I don't know. >> Yeah. But I think this -- when you're talking about the generation that you're talking about, Matt, that they would much rather send a text than log into Blackboard and go to the messaging tool and send a message, you know. And I think that would work really well for them. That might be something that old people like me might have to adjust to [laughter]. >> Me, too, and me, too [laughter]. >> I was going to ask, are we going to, you know, see -- how much pushback are we going to see on that kind of thing from faculty? >> I will say, after the forum I used to have my G-chat, whatever it's called, turned off on my email. And after the forum, I turned it on so that students can message me if they want. It wasn't something I'd ever thought of before, but -- >> Yeah. >> -- no one has. >> I know that in writing classes we work with the librarians a lot, and the librarians are just amazing and wonderful. And they do, for my writing class they'll do a library session that's live and so the students log on and usually it's the wonderful Theresa Yancy who's working with them, and they're doing live research. And they can all see and hear each other. And then Theresa gives me a recording and the students love that. And they get -- because a lot of them, online students, are working all the time, or they live far away and they can't come into the library, and then they feel like I don't have the library. They do have the library. They can use the library 24/7. They can -- >> Sure. >> -- chat with a librarian 24/7. >> Yeah. >> So they're thrilled with that. I am not going to say on this podcast that I'm going to be available to my students 24/7 [laughter]. But I do -- I already try to respond to them within 24 or 48 hours -- >> Yeah. >> -- you know? >> Yeah. >> And so maybe -- >> And you tell them that, right -- >> Yeah. >> --up front. >> Yeah. >> So I think that's the big thing, is just setting the expectation so that they know that you will respond and kind of when to expect it. >> Yeah. And if I know I'm going out of town and I'm not going to have WiFi access, or I'm not planning to get into Blackboard, I will often put an announcement and say I'm not quite as available right now as I normally will be. I'll check in on you when I'm back, in range, you know? >> Yeah. We'll be right back after this short break. [ Music ] >> The Center for Academic Innovation provides a central location for professional development for all Chemeketa faculty. Located on the Salem campus in Building Nine, Room 106, the Center for Academic Innovation provides faculty with access to a hospitality center, teaching material, conversation spaces, and technology resources in the academic technology hub. Visit our website, facultyhub.chemeketa.edu to find out more about what we offer, or stop by our office and help yourself to a free cup of coffee. [ Music ] >> And we're back with HubTalk. So the Student Forum was set up so that we had different small group themes and the students rotated from table to table, and Matt and Jill both facilitated different table discussions. Matt, you were sitting at the Course Design, and Jill, you were sitting at Course Interaction facilitating those discussions. I know you guys were going back and forth between the tables because we had a smaller group of students. Starting with you, Matt, was there anything from the Course Design that really stood out? And I know we kind of talked about the standardized template, but anything else that maybe a design-wise would be something easy for faculty members to make a change in their course? >> The one theme that was repeated over and over is sort of vague but important. And that is clarity. That students wanted things to be clear -- where to click, where to go, where to find the information they needed. When I went through the [inaudible] process, it helped me focus on clarity of my course because I was able to break down assignment and syllabus and course schedule into different places. That was a little bit -- those labelled better for students to find. And that's what they kept mentioning over and over -- clarity of the course. The other thing that they mentioned was the variety of learning material and how important that is, being able to have videos plus text, because when you -- you know, an online class has the same requirements as a face-to-face class. And so you're doing the same amount of reading and work, but that's a lot of reading if you're trying to do it on a Sunday night. And so breaking it up with videos, projects, things like that -- not group projects like -- but projects and videos, documentaries, that can help break up the reading a little bit. And they mentioned that quite a bit. >> Jill, how about for you for Course Interaction. Was there anything that stood out? We kind of talked about the feedback -- >> Yeah. >> -- and the importance of feedback, but anything else that students really noted. >> Actually, kind of the same thing that Matt said about Clarity. I mean, students really wanted a couple of things. They wanted to have kind of an understanding of how the class was set up and what was expected. They asked for an introductory e-mail and they liked the idea of screenshots or videos to just walk through. What's maybe weekly or at least at the beginning, here's how this class is set up. They liked the idea of an FAQ. And maybe even weekly updates, you know, of all kinds, you know, from an instructor. But also just clarity about what's going on, reminders. And we think about, you know, when we teach on campus sometimes we have to say things several times, you know? And a student at the end of class will say, well, what about this? And we'll say, yeah, we've been talking about that, remember? Right. So an online student who's reading quickly on a Sunday night might miss in the learning module the paragraph that talks about this, right? >> Mm-hmm. >> I mean, I think teaching online takes a lot of patience because, mm-mm, I don't know and I don't want to express it as a percentage, but many messages I get are asking me questions that are already answered in a learning module or the syllabus somewhere. But that's how people learn, right? >> Right. >> They're processing at different rates -- >> Yeah. >> -- and some students need -- I went in my Blackboard messages in-box. The first time a student sends me a message I make a folder for him or her so I can go back and make sure -- is there something I wanted to check on if we talked about this before. >> Oh, sure. >> And, you know, students are different types of learners. There are some students who have too messages in their folder at the end of the term. There are some students who have 80 [laughter], you know? And that's a student who has to confirm, right, or who needs to process in that way. So -- now I forget where I was going with that. But just about different students learning in different ways and needing that feedback I think, and that -- >> Developing material with the idea that students learn differently is important -- >> Yeah. >> -- because at the Forum one student said, I really like watching a video if it's, you know, five, 10, 15 minutes. And another guy said, I can read in 15 minutes what it takes a video an hour to explain. And so -- >> Right. >> -- some people wanted to read and some people wanted the video. >> Interesting. >> And yet students have to understand that part of taking college classes is about you get into a class -- >> Totally. >> -- and it's not the way it's -- you might have expected it to be organized and that's also a learning opportunity. >> Yeah. >> And the world isn't the way that we want it to be [laughter]. You bring up a good point. I mean, from our own -- our own learning, and in college, we probably wanted courses to be a certain way. But they weren't necessarily. So -- >> Going back to what you said earlier, Matt, with [clearing throat], excuse me, the clarity of both the course design and then, Jill, the different types of interactions and expectations, the students are going to have to meet in the class. I think sometimes this faculty, at least I do, I kind of get in a routine in how I'm creating my materials or formatting the class and I'm spending so much time in there that I know where everything lives, so I'm assuming my students are going to know. I'm assuming they're going to -- >> A really good point. >> -- really understand what my instructions mean and I, you know, sometimes don't step back and think about it from a different perspective. And the same can be said with regard to different types of learning materials and meeting different types of learners. If we kind of stay within our own zone of teaching or our own comfort zone, we may be missing some students. >> I think that's one way that the COI Process is helpful, because it's hard to -- >> Sure. >> -- you know, it's hard to edit your own writing. It's hard to -- >> Right. >> -- step back from something that you created and look at it from a different perspective because you're right, you know where everything lives. You're the one who put it there. >> Right. >> And so you need those outside perspectives, yeah. >> Yeah. And we all teach -- I think our default speed as teachers is to teach to the kind of student we were. So we design things in a way that makes sense to us -- >> Yeah. >> -- and our audience just might be like what is all -- >> It's a good take, yeah. >> You know. But I wanted to add, too, one of the things that students said was they would like to have a little bit of a grace period at the beginning of a class to get used to it. And I think for community college students that's particularly important. >> Oh, yeah. >> Sometimes they have difficulty getting the materials they need like a textbook. I -- one time I almost felt like crying. I got an email from a student -- I think it was the beginning of week three -- asking me, when are you going to let us know when the class is starting? >> Oh. >> And -- >> Oh, man. >> -- I just -- you know, I had to write back to her and say, we are under way, and you and I need to have a discussion, you know. But I think they have to get books. They need to log on and figure out how the class is structured, understand what's happening, and one thing that they said would be useful is if deadlines could be a little relaxed early, like week one, so that everyone can get -- >> Sure. >> -- you know, up to speed. I know in my classes one of the first assignments asks them, have you gone through the -- I forget what you guys call it -- the how-to snap guide or whatever it is. >> Oh, the "E-Learn Start Guide." >> The "E-Learn Start Guide," for -- and if they haven't, I say, please go do that now, right, so that they're up to speed with what to expect in an online class right away. So some of them need time to do that. >> Or to keep one -- something that my students have said is keeping their online due dates separate because if you're taking multiple online classes, and you have -- we might call them random. You know, Sunday's not a natural due date for a face-to-face class. >> Right. >> But some online classes have Sunday/Monday due dates like I do. Some I've heard of are like Wednesday/Thursday due dates, and keeping those straight in online classes -- it takes a week or two to figure it out. >> Exactly, exactly. In writing classes I have to have twice-a-week deadline in -- even in an online class because we're doing these interactive assignments like drafts, and we can't have someone post a draft of an essay on Sunday and wait a whole week for feedback, and another week to do the final version. We only have 10 weeks. >> Right. >> So -- >> You'd never get any writing done. >> We wouldn't get it done. And so we have twice-a-week deadlines. And I do hear from students how much they do not love that, but it's also that we have to get through the course outcomes, so. >> Yeah. That's a good insight as well. So thinking about all this, how could this information, or how has it started influencing your own professional practice for either of you? You both have made comments on things that the big takeaways -- and Matt, you mentioned COI. Also doing the COI Process has helped you. >> Yeah. >> But are there things that are easy quick fixes that you think you could do or you could share with other faculty? >> Well, I do a weekly video in Online Writing 121, and I'm pretty resolved to continue doing that -- >> Yeah. >> -- even though sometimes I feel term-by-term my Week Two video's kind of the same. >> Yeah. >> Right? >> Right. >> It feels important to do it fresh for this class and respond to some of the things they're doing. >> Sure. >> I've heard from students. I usually do it early in the morning, and my cat will come sit on the desk and like they'll show meow. You know, she's a mousy cat -- >> Yeah. >> -- and so the students feel -- they've -- I heard them say to me, you know, like, that was kind of nice to hear your cat. Like it makes it more like I'm a human being. >> Yeah. >> Sure. >> You know, I do weekly videos, too. >> Yeah. >> And at first, when I thought about doing it, it seemed really daunting. But it's not that difficult. I open up my Mac and record myself on the Photo Booth, so it's not, you know, tremendous technology. >> Yeah. >> I upload it to YouTube because our Chemeketa account's -- you know, it's Google and so I upload it to YouTube, and then just link it into my account. And I do like this Coffee Shop [inaudible], where it doesn't have to be edited. It doesn't -- >> Yeah. >> I can misspeak. I can go back. I can ruffle pages. Your cat can sit on your lap. >> Yeah. >> And you're right. It makes it real. >> Yeah. >> Kind of like the classroom where we go -- >> Right. >> -- and we goof and, you know, things don't come out of our mouths correctly. >> Yeah. >> And it makes the learning environment seem real and genuine. >> Yeah. And it feels like it's a way -- I don't present new material in my weekly videos. I'm just guiding them through. Like here's what's going on. Responding to what happened. It's a way to catch those students for whom that would be more accessible and easy to learn. >> Right. >> So I'm pretty resolved to continue doing that. >> Yeah. I think those are great. And that's -- you bring up a great point about just being conversational, having your cat, making mistakes and -- because we make mistakes in the classroom. We can't go in and edit it out like the podcast. >> Right [laughter]. >> So, you know, being, just being yourself and not having to spend a lot of time editing or things like that would really make it daunting. >> I think it also helps students learn a personality because -- >> Yeah. >> -- you know, we're a name and, hopefully, a picture -- >> Right. >> -- to a lot of our online students. >> Yeah. >> This allows them to see my personality which is, I think, really helpful for the learning process because then -- >> Yeah. >> -- they know that someone's on the other side of it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's a real person. And I've had more students call me. And that might be something else that I'm more willing to do, and I always offer students if they want to come to my campus office hours -- >> Sure. >> -- they're welcome to do that. And for some students that really helps them to just, you know, have a chat on the phone. >> So with that, anything that might require some more training or professional development or that you want to explore down the road like maybe virtual office hours using Zoom or Google Hangouts or something like that? >> Yeah. So I'm intrigued by the Google whatever tool you're using, Matt, because I've been doing Kaltura, right? That sounds easier. >> Oh, yeah. Oh, you mean like through YouTube? >> Yeah. No. Yeah. Because I just -- I make the video also using my Mac, but I'm using Kaltura -- >> Kaltura. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Capture. >> I tried that one or twice. And I found that just uploading, you know -- make a JPEG or mp4 -- >> Right. >> -- or whatever it is, and uploading it to YouTube. It takes a little bit of time for YouTube, but it embeds really easily. >> Yeah. >> And I like the ability to control that. And then if a week gets busy, you can just -- you know, from a previous term, you can pull that video -- >> Yeah. >> -- embed it again, and it's okay, you know. Because if you're saying week two stuff over and over, if I get slammed early on a term or something, I have something to fall back on. >> Mm-hmm. >> So, okay, that brings up some good -- like it gets me thinking of things we could offer because there are ways you can easily embed Kaltura videos. >> Yeah. >> They are a little more involved in the recording and all that, but the great thing is if you ever have an accommodation we can get them captioned right away. >> Right. >> So that's the plus. But the plus side is -- >> Mine are not captioned. >> No. But the plus side is that, you know, Photo Booth on your Mac is easy to use. Boom, it's up, it's in. You know, YouTube is easy to embed as well. >> Yeah. >> Anything else, though, that you thought of that could maybe become some kind of professional development or training or exploring or? >> I think it would be interesting to have a forum with online faculty just talking about how they organize their classes because I organize mine the way that makes sense to me, and I do try to, you know, evolve and improve. And I'll be thinking about real -- as much clarity as possible with how the class is organized as I'm going forward. I feel like I'm doing that and I'll continue to do that, but I mean it would be useful to me. I'd love to steal ideas from other faculty members that how they do it. >> That's a great idea. >> That's a great idea, but outside of an evaluation -- >> Yeah. >> -- process where we can just bounce ideas. You're right. >> Yeah. >> You know, let's throw up your class and my class and we can see what each other are doing. >> Explain why you did it that way [laughter]. >> Another instructor mentioned the same thing to me. They said, you know, before I go into the COI Course Review, I'd love to get ideas and see what other courses look like. So it's got me thinking that maybe doing some kind of brown bag at lunchtime thing where we do have a bunch of faculty just sit around, talk, show and tell what their courses look like, how they're organizing so that we can all compare, because we all have different styles as well. And like you said, we oftentimes probably go back to how we learned the best. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So that gives us ideas for maybe a lunchtime workshop as well. >> Yeah. >> I will say also, it seems daunting to overhaul a course when you -- you know, I've been wanting to change it for a long time, and things are maybe a little sparse. It's daunting to overhaul a course. It's then easy to maintain. >> Right. >> And you're still updating material. You're -- you know, things like that. And it's not stagnant by any means. >> Yeah. >> But the upfront work is worth it -- >> Yeah. >> -- for both you as an instructor and for students. >> And faculty have support here with us at the Center for Academic Innovation. We can help with some of the heavy listing of those types of course overhauls or implementing new technology or strategy, so, yeah, if there's something that your students are really, you know, calling for or really asking you to change or add to a course, you know, we can certainly help with that. >> We have a program. We probably need to publicize it a little bit better. But we have something kind of like the Adopt-A-Highway. It's called Adopt-A-Course. >> Hmph. >> And so we can work with an instructor to, like Bill said, do some of the heavy lifting, so copying things over, you know, maybe changing some of the layout of how it is so that you could put in new content and update content, give some training on maybe using Kaltura. We have the Sound Booth and the Center for Academic Innovation, so sometimes it's nice to be able to come in, try doing a recording where someone is around to help you, and then you can do it on your own. So we can help with those kinds of things as well like Bill was saying. >> Yeah. But this faculty forum idea is fantastic. >> Yeah, I love that idea. >> So if we have a faculty member doing something that's totally amazing, but doesn't really have the opportunity to share that with anyone, that's just going to live in that one course or that set of courses. But if it can spread throughout other departments, you know, we need to take advantage of that for sure. >> Yeah, for sure. >> Yeah. >> Okay, so Jill and Matt, as we close out, is there any closing comments or anything that you've thought of that you'd like to share about the Student Forum and your takeaways? >> Thought it was fun and interesting to meet online students. >> Yeah. >> I mean, I've been doing it for a while and it's a cool and weird thing to be working in the student/teacher relationship with people that you almost never see -- >> Sure. >> -- you know. And so that was fun to talk to students and get their feedback. >> Outside of the classroom environment. >> Outside of the classroom, right. That was really interesting. >> Yeah. Same. I think it's important to listen to students. I started off by saying this, but it's important to listen to students and be humble enough to sit back and say, hey, that's a really good idea. And that's going to improve their learning because they do have good ideas. They've taken several online classes. They know what works and what doesn't work. >> Yeah. >> Instead of me being, you know -- the course that I created that I think is humming along really well. >> Yeah. I mean it's -- actually, it's the same for campus classes and online classes. >> It really is. >> Right? I mean, we can constantly improve them -- >> Yeah. >> -- but -- and so that's useful. >> Thanks, Matt and Jill, for joining us and in our next episode of "HubTalk" we'll be talking about the quality online instruction initiative, our COI course review. So please join us for that. Until then, I'm Colin Stapp. >> I'm Bill Hamlin. >> "HubTalk" is produced by the Center for Academic Innovation at Chemeketa Community College. Visit our website, facultyhub.chemeketa.edu to find helpful resources about teaching, learning, and technology integration, along with video tutorials and more podcast episodes just like this one. [ Music ]