[ Static ] >> You've tuned in to HubTalk, a podcast about teaching, learning, and technology. [ Music ] >> Colin Stapp: Okay. Welcome back to this episode of HubTalk. I'm Colin Stapp. >> Bill Hamlin: I'm Bill Hamlin. >> Colin Stapp: And today, we're on the road. HubTalk is out at our Yamhill Valley Campus in McMinnville, and we're talking with Shannon Othus-Gault about active learning techniques. Shannon presented at our fall faculty retreat in September at the start of the term and talked about active learning. So we're going to have a conversation with her. Many times, instructors are told ways of altering their teaching that should benefit student success and improve classroom equity. These techniques are not always shared constructively. Active learning and metacognition are many times preached with research showing their efficacy, but rarely are teachers given easy tools to try in their own classroom that don't seem both time intensive or even daunting. Shannon's session really aimed at having instructors participate in active learning techniques themselves, while learning about the research behind the efficacy so that instructors can see how easy it is and simple to add activities to their own classroom teaching. >> Bill Hamlin: Yeah, and just a little bit about Shannon before we introduce her here. She's been teaching geology and earth sciences for nine years. Prior to teaching, she worked as a natural resource scientist for the Washington Department of Natural Resources in the forestry department, mapping landslides and making landslide hazard maps. Since 2015, Shannon has begun working to incorporate open education resources and pedagogy into many of her classes. She has created three open-education websites, including a website for Oregon virtual field trips and one that showcases students' mineral research projects. She teaches oceanography, earth system science, earth science, and several other courses focused on the Pacific Northwest, geology of Northwest volcanoes, mountains, earthquakes, Pacific Northwest rocks and minerals, and geology of the Northwest rivers, glaciers, and deserts. Shannon, thank you for joining us today. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: Yeah, thank you guys. You made me sound so great. Thank you. >> Colin Stapp: Yeah, it's great to have you with us. So just give our listeners a quick overview of what active learning really means. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: Okay. So it's a little bit easier to think about it from the other side. So passive learning is what most of us who went to college got, which is you sit and you watch the lecturer lecture for an hour or two, and then you close up your book and you leave. And active learning would be the opposite of that. I mean, there's still a little bit of lecture so that students know what they're doing, but you're also allowing students to participate in the learning process. So you're -- they're actively coming up with ideas, they're sharing ideas with each other, there's group work, it's pretty loud, but everybody sort of gets to participate. So it's a little bit more fun for maybe everybody in the room, I would say. >> Colin Stapp: Even you? >> Shannon Othus-Gault: Even me, yeah. >> Colin Stapp: Yeah, because it takes some of the pressure off you lecturing for 50 minutes straight. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: I have three-hour classes. So three hours straight, if you can imagine that. >> Colin Stapp: There you go. >> Bill Hamlin: I don't know too many people who would enjoy standing up there talking for three hours. Well, maybe I do. >> Colin Stapp: I think some of my college professors probably would. So how long have you been using active learning techniques in your classroom? Like, when did you really start diving in on it? >> Shannon Othus-Gault: So I actually have always sort of used active learning, but I didn't necessarily understand the reason why I was using it. I had started using it just so that, like, I could fill three hours or two-and-a-half hours. And I was like, well, I just -- I always see students sort of start to like nod off or like stop paying attention or fuss with their phones in about like 20 minutes. So I was like, we've got to do something else. So I started incorporating worksheets into my classroom. And then I got on a grant called SAGE 2YC, which is this national grant where we're learning about active learning. And I was like, oh man, there's all this research that says it's actually a good thing to do. Okay. Well, that's good. So it was really validating to know that I was sort of like doing the right thing, sort of on accident. >> Colin Stapp: And so, you mentioned the worksheets. What -- were there activities built into those? Were there -- was it problem solving? Kind of describe that for us. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: So in each one of my classes, because they're three hours long, I do two worksheets per class. I'll do lecture for like 20 to 40 minutes, depending on like what the particular topic is. And then I will do -- our first worksheet is usually some sort of hands-on thing. So they'll look at mineral samples, and they'll like make diagrams and label diagrams or -- you know, sort of a like about something, sort of functionally. And then we'll lecture a little bit more, and then the last worksheet is sort of a critical thinking worksheet that takes like the main points of the lecture that we learned that day, and sort of ask them to like consolidate what they've learned. >> Colin Stapp: Okay. So they all kind of build on one another? >> Shannon Othus-Gault: Mm-hmm. >> Colin Stapp: Culminating in that critical thinking and kind of reflection. And then does that leapfrog into the next lesson? Or is it -- can they be sometimes totally different in what you're doing? >> Shannon Othus-Gault: Usually, they're -- like, they won't leapfrog. Because science is a little bit different because you kind of are doing one thing a week, building up like a base of knowledge that then can be used sort of like across more classes. But usually, what ends up happening is they'll keep those, actually, as like study guides. And then they'll use them to study for the midterm, and I'll take questions off of those and put them on the midterm. So they're functional sort of like through the rest of the class. >> Colin Stapp: Oh, that's awesome. Okay. So that totally makes sense. Because how many times have -- well, any of us when we were in college maybe wondered what's going to be on an exam. >> Bill Hamlin: Yeah. >> Colin Stapp: What -- how do I figure out what the professor considers important? And you're really providing that to your students. So they know right away, this is a study guide. You take questions from this, but it's not just a passive -- them sitting there listening to you for three hours. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: Yeah, absolutely. And the other important thing in my class, too, that I think is really important and beneficial to the students is group work. Everything but the test is group work. So they can work together and formulate thoughts. And a lot of times, like, I will explain something and it will be -- won't be very accessible because I'll use, you know, science jargon and it's confusing. But then the students will work together to come to like a consensus over that question. So it's really rare, actually, for me to have kind of a quiet class. Usually, people are always sort of talking to each other, trying to figure out what the answer is. Groups will talk to other groups. So people are really actively like engaging with each other as well. >> Colin Stapp: That's cool. So I would think just the group work piece would be really helpful because -- I mean, I'm sure within the field of science and geology and what you're doing, you work independently. But you probably also do a lot of research with other folks or have. You've been out in the field with other folks. And so, this is a practical way to get students learning how to communicate and work together, which they're going to do down the road. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: Absolutely. >> Colin Stapp: In graduate school or in the field, literally in the field. >> Bill Hamlin: Yeah. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: And specifically, when they look at -- the research sort of shows, like, that's what employers are looking for. And most of my students are not geologists. So how can I make the content that I'm giving them relevant and give them tools that they can use sort of like across their studies and not just in geology? And that's one of those things that all employers are looking for. How do you communicate? Can you communicate well? Your ideas -- you know. How do you work with a group? So I think group work is extremely important. >> Colin Stapp: Yeah. So walk through a -- so you mentioned that you have a three-hour block. Walk through maybe a typical class and break it down for us. Do you lecture, active learning, lecture, go back and forth? How does it kind of shape down? >> Shannon Othus-Gault: Yeah, so the first thing that I always do is, I put the essential questions for the day on the board so that they know what we're going to talk about. And then I lecture for 20, 40 minutes. We do a worksheet. Then I lecture for 20 to 40 minutes, and we do a worksheet. The other reason I do that over and over and over again is because that's the expectation, right? I come to your class, I know what we're going to do, I know exactly what's going to happen, I'm prepared. And all of my classes look like that. So I can get students -- I'll get five like students to take five of my classes. >> Colin Stapp: Mm-hmm. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: And they know exactly what they're doing. And that's helpful too because when they return, they can help other students know exactly what's going to happen. So it's good to have that structure. Even though each worksheet is totally different, there is a structure to what we're doing that they can expect every day. >> Bill Hamlin: I can see that being helpful in a couple different ways. You've got the structure of the class. They're never going to be caught off guard in terms of what you're doing in class any given day. But then the worksheets and the activities that they're doing with each other kind of takes some pressure of them as far as, you know, taking notes, creating their own study materials. Because I know when I was a student, I would try to almost write down every word the instructor was saying in my notes. But in doing that, I was kind of missing everything. >> Colin Stapp: Okay. So the topic of your presentation at the faculty retreat was Active Learning Techniques, It's Easier Than You Think. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: Yeah. >> Colin Stapp: So break down for our listeners, how easy is it to really build in active learning? And maybe even talk about some of your failures. Because we know that it's all relative, right? I mean, what may work in your class -- >> Shannon Othus-Gault: Right. >> Colin Stapp: -- may not work in a different class. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: So that's the one thing that's really important is that there are many techniques that people use. Like, I use worksheets because they work for me. You don't have to. There are so many other things that you can do. And the presentation I did was very intentional in that it was very small things that you could add. Because a lot of times, when we're in these meetings where we talk about active learning, people are always like I have so much content that there's no way I could possibly add anything else. It's too important. And it's like, well, you can if you do very small things. Clicker questions, but like without the clicker because people are always a little bit nervous about new technology. So having your students have like colors that they hold up for like, you know, red and green, yes and no. Or you could do something called a minute paper at the end, where they just write what they learned or that they didn't understand. And you collect those. Also a great way to take roll. And so -- >> Colin Stapp: For sure. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: -- there's like multiple tiny things that you could do that don't necessarily take up all of the time that you're expected. But granted, there are enormous things you could do too, like flipping your classroom and then only doing active learning. So you know, different things are going to work for different people. So I wish I didn't hear the phrase, well, I can't possibly do it. Because there's so many options, you don't have to do the one thing that I'm doing. There are so many other things. And they really do enrich your class. It really does raise all boats when you have all of the students participate. >> Colin Stapp: Mm-hmm. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: And you will fail. I did a worksheet once where it was like connected to the EPA website that monitors air quality. And I don't know -- like, when I was doing it, it was very easy. But I guess my assumption is like oh everybody knows how to use websites, and everybody knows how to like enter the right thing. I just had to like give them a couple of instructions. Oh my God, it immediately started failing. And it was like a four-page worksheet. And people were like, what am I doing? What am I doing? What am I doing? And I'm like, oh my gosh, this is so bad. And literally afterwards, the students too were like this was terrible. And I was like, you're right. This was garbage. And that's okay too because -- you know, we had been talking all -- we talk all term, right? I walk around when they're doing their worksheets. I get to talk to them one-on-one. They're comfortable [inaudible] that was really bad, Shannon. And I will be like, you are right. Let's fix it. >> Colin Stapp: Well -- but that's great that at least you have the relationship with your students that they can say, this failed. You knew that it failed. It could just be out there in the open instead of -- you know, a lot times I think as instructors, we think we can't make a mistake in class. But those students need to see us -- >> Shannon Othus-Gault: Oh for sure. Absolutely. >> Colin Stapp: -- fail because we want them to learn how to fail -- >> Shannon Othus-Gault: Right. >> Colin Stapp: -- and keep moving forward. What were some of the things that -- the activities or -- that you suggested in your session? >> Shannon Othus-Gault: So we had a couple of things in there. We had the minute paper, which we talked about a little bit. There's this thing that you can do called the whip around, where you ask every student sort of what their opinion is on a question. The reason that is really helpful is because a lot of times, when we do ask questions during class and we leave them open-ended, there's like one or two students who will always answer. But in this case, everybody gets to have a say. And the way that I do that one too is, I can say like if you don't feel comfortable, say pass. Or if somebody else said something, you can just say like my answer was already said. So that you don't have to make the student feel stressed out about it, too. Because sometimes, that -- >> Colin Stapp: Mm-hmm. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: -- being put on the spot is like -- >> Colin Stapp: Mm-hmm. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: -- very hard for students. One of the longer things that we did was called a gallery walk. And a gallery walk is a way to sort of put up questions about the topic you're talking about. And you break your students up into smaller groups, and they walk around to each question like set up around the room, and they get to answer it. And then, once they get back to their original question, they get to synthesize those answers into a broader answer and then report back to the class. So then, again, you're hearing from everybody as well. Not necessarily putting anybody on the spot, but everybody's able to participate and get their ideas aired. A lot of times, I think many of these would work super well in like politics classes or communications classes or English, where you're really getting into a lot of opinion stuff. >> Colin Stapp: Mm-hmm. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: But like a gallery walk in particular is a non-threatening way to like bring up a lot of these like hot-button issues, which can be very helpful. And I've seen it work really well with like teachers. >> Colin Stapp: Yeah. Well, I would think the gallery walk would work well for like group presentations as well. Where they could walk around and someone from that group kind of does a presentation and rotate around. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: Right. And then you don't have the whole class -- >> Colin Stapp: Yeah. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: -- watching you, which can be less threatening. >> Colin Stapp: Yeah, exactly. >> Bill Hamlin: You mentioned a couple strategies to make these activities less threatening and more comfortable for students. Like breaking them into smaller groups, letting them pass, and things like that. But do you ever have students who are the type of learner who would rather just sit and absorb a two-hour lecture and write a paper? And do they struggle with this type of setup? >> Shannon Othus-Gault: You know, I think that's pretty rare now just because of cell phones. But you know, there's always one person who's like, ugh, you know, another worksheet. But the thing that is helpful, especially since I do them in group work, is they get to work with their peers that they like. I don't make groups. It's not like high school. I don't sit them down and say, you have to work -- I also say, like you don't have to work in a group. You could do this all by yourself if you want to. It's pretty rare for people to work by themselves, but you can if you want to. And I think, also, I grade all of those by hand. So they all have like the answers on them. Students seem to like getting feedback, knowing that they're learning the right thing, knowing that they can use it for like a study guide. I haven't really run into very many people that have been like, this is terrible. And usually, if I do, they know by the class. And they're like, all right. >> Bill Hamlin: This is [inaudible], yeah. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: Because you have to go to my class, right? You can't miss it -- >> Bill Hamlin: Right. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: -- because you get points every time you show up. So if you miss it, you're missing out on points. So it's -- another way, like I said, you can take roll. You know who's there. You know who's getting the information. So -- >> Colin Stapp: Do you do the same things in all your courses that you teach? The worksheets? Or do you do different things in different courses because of the subject matter? >> Shannon Othus-Gault: I just do worksheets. I -- that's my silver bullet. Because I personally like to talk to every student while they're working on the worksheets. And the other ones that are a bit smaller, like the whip-around or whatever. You can't have that single one-on-one with every student every single class. So I want to make sure that I'm connecting with them. And that works, again, for me. You know, if I told other teachers, like, oh you have to do two worksheets, they would be like, you have to grade those? Like, every week? You get 75 worksheets? Like, yup. And I'm okay with that. But like, I don't think everybody would be okay with that. So again, it's like finding the thing that you like. And when I was learning about this, I was like, wait, you want me to try all of these things? Like, that was my question to the person that was running the workshop. And they were like, oh no, don't do all of these things. Because then, also, your students don't know what to expect. So they're constantly like, whoah, what are we going to do today? >> Colin Stapp: Right. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: Like, another crazy thing? So once you find the thing that works for you and it works, like, go with that thing. And I don't mean, like, forever. You can always change. >> Colin Stapp: Sure. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: Like, if it works and it's helping the students, there's really no reason to go a totally different way. >> Bill Hamlin: So earlier, you mentioned -- you know, this idea of the flipped classroom. And a lot of faculty are embracing that and really utilizing their class time in more engaging ways than just standing there lecturing. And then, of course, we've got instructors teaching hybrid classes, where that's kind of the model they're using. Students do their reading and kind of the heavy lifting before class online, and then they come and do more engaging activities face-to-face. So I guess my question is, these active learning techniques, do you see any way they could be mirrored in an online environment to get the benefit of that kind of flipped classroom or at least those more engaging activities? >> Shannon Othus-Gault: So I've taught a few online classes, and like it's a little bit harder, obviously, to participate. But in the ones that I've always taught, I always had open discussion boards. And they actually get graded on them. So you get -- you have to respond 20 times. You get 1 point for each. That's 20 points for your participation, and you have to. But the classes that I taught were really interesting classes in like that it was like the history of science. So like, let's talk about the printing press and things like that. And students had a lot of opinions that they wanted to share, so it was always like a really robust conversation. In geology, when I had it, it's a little less robust because the students don't have a lot of opinions on like rocks. So it gets a little bit more difficult in science, where like because they have to do labs. So it's always engaging. But I would say one of the ways that you could get around that would be to have online office hours on like video chat, where your students can come in and video chat with you at any point in time. And then they can see you. That's also really important online. I noticed like if students didn't meet me, I would always have like one first class where they saw my face. If they saw me, they would not yell at me -- like online in all caps. And that was really important. >> Bill Hamlin: Yeah? >> Shannon Othus-Gault: Because computers can be frustrating. And I'm not with you. I can't walk you through what you're supposed to do. But also, like, you can get up and walk away before you yell at me online, you know? So like, if you can get them to see face to you as a person, see like how you interact with them, that's also really helpful. And I would say like, you know, grading things with personal touches online, too, where they know you're actually reading their stuff. Because it's pretty easy to just be like yeah, they did it. They did it, it's fine. They put work into that, and they should get some validation. Checking in all the time, sending them emails from your end is probably pretty helpful and makes it maybe a little bit more -- maybe the person at home feels less alone while they're working on stuff. >> Bill Hamlin: Sure. >> Colin Stapp: I teach FYE online for [inaudible] grants, and I do the virtual office hours using Zoom. And some terms, I have more students participating in it. I always do turn on my camera. Even though I'm sitting at home, I always turn on my camera so at least they could see me. I don't think I've ever had a student turn on their camera. But they will, you know, usually use their microphone for the most part. Or if they're on their phone, they can do it. And at least we can chat back and forth. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: Right. >> Colin Stapp: And it's nice -- I think it's nice to hear them and for them to hear and see me, like you were saying. So I think that's really helpful. When I taught over summer term, I did it the first week of the term. Since it's an eight-week term. And I had nine students out of 25 come on that first night. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: Oh wow. >> Colin Stapp: And it was really helpful because they had a lot of questions. They were all new to Chemeketa. And it was probably just a great way to get them active in the class early on. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: Right. And if they meet you, too, they feel a little bit more connected to you. >> Colin Stapp: Mm-hmm. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: So they might feel bad, like, if they don't do their homework. >> Colin Stapp: Yeah. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: They might check in more, like oh you notice -- >> Colin Stapp: Yeah. Yeah. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: -- that I'm not doing this stuff. >> Colin Stapp: Yeah. Exactly. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: Okay. >> Colin Stapp: So when you did the workshop and started doing some of the research about this, how many different techniques were thrown out at you of ideas for active learning? >> Shannon Othus-Gault: Like, 20, 30. I mean, there were so many. There are so many out there. You know, the ones that we always hear of are like think, pair, share, and those things. And those are the things that our students who are in high school right now, who are going to come here, they know exactly how those work. So if we start learning them too, like AVID, et cetera, like they will know that we know what they went through. There's an easier transition for them. >> Colin Stapp: Yeah. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: I know what to expect now that I'm in this classroom. And I think that's really helpful for us to understand. Like, these kids that are coming in have a little bit of a shorter attention span, right? >> Colin Stapp: Right, sure. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: They have a computer in their pocket. That, you know, if you aren't exciting, they're going to pull it out and look at it. So they're -- you know, we need to understand that needs to be incorporated sort of in our class. Like, how can we engage them to keep their interest? Which is like a little bit of a bummer because we all have to be performers now. It comes easier to some people. >> Colin Stapp: Mm-hmm. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: But you know, we got to get out there and hold their attention. Otherwise, they're all staring down at their phone underneath the desk, which is the worst. >> Colin Stapp: Yeah. So break down for us your lecture. Is that -- do you use presentation tools? PowerPoint, Google Slides? Do you use video? How do you keep them for that 20 to 40 minutes -- how do you keep them engaged in what you're talking about? >> Shannon Othus-Gault: So I love all of the Google Suite for education. Everything that I have is Good Slides in terms of lecture. And I -- it's up all term. So they have every single presentation we're going to go over, like the first day. And they can go in -- a lot of times what they'll do is, they'll print out the slides -- a lot of them -- so they can take notes on what I'm saying. Because my slides are pretty sparse because I want them to sort of participate. And usually, you know, I tell them like this is what we're going to learn today. I jump into the lecture. I ask questions during the lecture. If they start to nod off, I'm like, okay, five minutes. Like, go walk around. Come back. We'll get back into it. Because you really like -- once they start falling asleep, you've lost them. >> Colin Stapp: Yeah. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: You know what I mean? I'm always walking around and passing around like rock samples and showing videos, if they're important, and putting up like pictures of things around the Pacific Northwest. >> Colin Stapp: Mm-hmm. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: [inaudible] or regionally significant stuff. So any sort of way that I can like tie them in. And I walk around. Like, that's the one thing that I noticed. Some teachers will just like sit and lecture, which is fine, except like you got to move. Because then they have to follow you. It's kind of like a tennis game, you know? >> Colin Stapp: Sure. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: Like, how are we going to pay attention? Move around because then they have to follow you, right? >> Colin Stapp: Yeah. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: So I'm always moving around, yeah. So that's kind of what my lecture looks like. >> Colin Stapp: So it -- and that's great that you provide the context but then also tie in what's relative to the Pacific Northwest, so that they kind of get a sense of they're living in what you're talking about. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: Right. >> Colin Stapp: And they can maybe see it when they're driving around and they're out. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: Right. And I actually -- I'll tie in like, you know, regional politics into geology. I'll tie in like environmental issues. Things that are important that they might not know about, but then they can like connect to. I think that's a really important thing. That a lot of times, when we give students textbooks, they don't have our region in them. Not a lot of Pacific Northwest stuff seems to show up in a lot of like national textbooks. So like, how can we tie them back into sort of the community that we have? And so, that's really important to me as well. >> Colin Stapp: So Shannon, share with us -- for our listeners, what are three or four takeaways or tips that you would say to someone that wants to try incorporating active learning in their classroom, if they're not doing it already? >> Shannon Othus-Gault: I would say, first, start small because if you try to like -- for instance, flip your class immediately, like, that's the biggest thing that you can do. And if it doesn't work, it's going to feel real bad because you've put in a whole bunch of work and it didn't work out. And it's like -- you don't like it. Your students didn't like it. And so, try something small first. Test the waters. And then I would say, you know, if something doesn't work, don't stick to it either. Like, if it really doesn't work, feel free to get rid of that thing because nobody's getting anything out of that. >> Colin Stapp: Sure, and there are so many other things that you could try. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: Right, and I would say if you do find something that works for you, keep at it. Keep changing things. Every year, I go through my worksheets and I change them just to make them better. Keep evolving. Keep trying new things. >> Colin Stapp: I do have one other -- what's your policy on cell phones in class? And do you encourage them to use those for their information gathering or not? >> Shannon Othus-Gault: They're going to use them regardless. Yeah, I'm like -- you know, do you have a cell phone? Pull it out. Let's find that. Or I'll say, like the five-minute walk around. Cell phone break. Like, go ahead and take out your cell phones because I know you're itching to do it. And they'll pull up my slides while I'm talking and have them open and search through them while I'm doing their worksheets, too. So absolutely. I -- they're going to have it anyway. >> Colin Stapp: Right. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: I incorporate it into the class. There's -- so that'd be too hard to keep it from them. >> Colin Stapp: I think that's a good way to go. Because I think that's a great way for you to help students to learn how to maybe find what you want them to find. And they're going to be using them in the real world. Whether they're in science or they're in something else, they're going to be using their cell phones. And so, I think if you're helping them determine what's good knowledge that they're finding versus, hey, maybe that's not such a reliable source. Or like you said, they're bringing up your slides and they're following along. Have you tried using -- you mentioned clickers. Have you tried using anything that's mobile based? >> Shannon Othus-Gault: Other than cell phones, no. But I know people have used them. And with the cell phone clickers, it's very easy to like gather data to see -- you know, are they understanding my lecture? Because you get it in realtime, obviously. And I know people who use streaming and realtime as well to get students' answers like below you know the board or whatever. I just -- I haven't used it. I'm not opposed to it. The new technology that I'm super excited to incorporate into my class is Google Cardboard VR for geology. >> Colin Stapp: Yeah, sure. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: I'm going to test it out next year and see if they like it, but I think it's going to be pretty cool. So I'm not averse to technology. The thing about technology is, again, you sort of have to like shop around for the things that work for you and not force yourself to use this thing just to use it. >> Colin Stapp: I think that's a great point right there. It really needs to support your instruction and where you're headed, not just because it's the newest thing out there. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: Right. >> Bill Hamlin: And it almost sounds like you don't maybe necessarily need the mobile based clicker options to test their understanding because you're doing that while they're doing their activities in between your lectures. So -- >> Shannon Othus-Gault: Right. >> Bill Hamlin: -- you're doing the one-on-one time with them. You're helping them, guiding them through any questions they have. So it doesn't seem like it would necessarily be -- >> Shannon Othus-Gault: If I had an hour-long class, we might be having a different conversation. >> Bill Hamlin: Sure. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: But because my class is three hours, like, I have the time to walk around. >> Bill Hamlin: Yeah. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: I feel like if I had an hour-long class, I would probably use clickers. I would probably use something like that to sort of enrich the class, but I have time right now. So -- >> Colin Stapp: Shannon, thank you for joining us. >> Bill Hamlin: Yes, thank you. >> Shannon Othus-Gault: Yeah, thanks to you guys for driving out here. >> Colin Stapp: HubTalk loves to go on the road. We'll have to come back out here again sometime to the Yamhill Valley Campus. And thanks for everyone for tuning in to this episode of HubTalk. In our next episode, we're going to be talking to Debbie Hornibrook on the Salem Campus, who teaches a communications course. And she's going to be talking about the dynamics of group work because we know that everyone, including students, love group activities. But Debbie is going to be sharing what she does in her group communication class and give us some tips for creating dynamic work groups. >> HubTalk is produced by the Center for Academic Innovation at Chemeketa Community College. Visit our website facultyhub.chemeketa.edu to find helpful resources about teaching, learning, and technology integration along with video tutorials and more podcast episodes just like this one. [ Music ]